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	<title>Comments on: The Prime Ministerial Candidates: A Genealogical Backdrop</title>
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	<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/</link>
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		<title>By: Electra 'Bolshe-chik' Smith</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-16502</link>
		<dc:creator>Electra 'Bolshe-chik' Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-16502</guid>
		<description>That was the most terrifying bit of genealogy I have ever read. 1) none of these people should be in power. 2) none of these people should be the head of any political parties. 3) All of these people should have been executed by the bolsheviks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was the most terrifying bit of genealogy I have ever read. 1) none of these people should be in power. 2) none of these people should be the head of any political parties. 3) All of these people should have been executed by the bolsheviks.</p>
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		<title>By: Theo</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-10213</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 19:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-10213</guid>
		<description>How all very coincidental...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How all very coincidental&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Stockdill</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Stockdill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 20:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-566</guid>
		<description>Will: I regret I do not know for certain, but the IGI throws up two possibles.....

An Elizabeth Barber who married John Clegg at Bradford on 20 May 1829, and Elizabeth Ward who married a John Clegg at Batley on 14 June 1832. The National Burial Index has an Elizabeth Clegg who was buried at Drighlington (Adwalton was part of Drighlington and in Birstall parish), aged 31, on 11 September 1839, and she sounds a likely candidate to me.

There are a couple of websites that claim John Clegg&#039;s first marriage was to a Martha Sykes but I have found no evidence of this.

Given that in the 1841 census John Clegg&#039;s eldest child was Phoebe, aged 8 (and of course relationships are not given and must be assumed in that census), it seems possible his 1st wife was Elizabeth Ward, but I could not swear to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will: I regret I do not know for certain, but the IGI throws up two possibles&#8230;..</p>
<p>An Elizabeth Barber who married John Clegg at Bradford on 20 May 1829, and Elizabeth Ward who married a John Clegg at Batley on 14 June 1832. The National Burial Index has an Elizabeth Clegg who was buried at Drighlington (Adwalton was part of Drighlington and in Birstall parish), aged 31, on 11 September 1839, and she sounds a likely candidate to me.</p>
<p>There are a couple of websites that claim John Clegg&#8217;s first marriage was to a Martha Sykes but I have found no evidence of this.</p>
<p>Given that in the 1841 census John Clegg&#8217;s eldest child was Phoebe, aged 8 (and of course relationships are not given and must be assumed in that census), it seems possible his 1st wife was Elizabeth Ward, but I could not swear to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Roberts</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-541</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 00:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-541</guid>
		<description>Thanks Roy, yes I would say Emma would have been quite a remarkable woman for the time. I wonder if she had the looks to go with dropping her age 10 years etc. 

On the matter of other spouses, did you find the name of John Clegg&#039;s first wife who died prior to 1841? She was the mother of at least two of his children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Roy, yes I would say Emma would have been quite a remarkable woman for the time. I wonder if she had the looks to go with dropping her age 10 years etc. </p>
<p>On the matter of other spouses, did you find the name of John Clegg&#8217;s first wife who died prior to 1841? She was the mother of at least two of his children.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Stockdill</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-524</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Stockdill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 11:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-524</guid>
		<description>My researches tell me that in every census apart from 1841 and 1851 Emma Matchan (or Matcham) knocked around 10 years off her age. In 1841 she is shown as 10 and in 1851 as 19, yet in the 1861 census (where she was a visitor at Sculcoates, Hull, with a couple called Lunt) her age is given as 20! Then in 1871 she is living with her father and says her age was 32 but she was more likely 39 or 40. 

From their given ages in the 1881 census - Benjamin B Ward was 89 and she was supposedly 43 - she was 46 years younger than her husband. However, if she was born in 1831, then she would actually have been nearer 50 and about 44 or 45 when the son was born. Would it be pushing my luck to harbour an idle thought about whether Benjamin was the father? (!) When she married Simeon Clegg in 1884 she would have been some 13 or 14 years older than him, since he was born in 1844.

I agree with you, Wayne, that in the 1901 census she was the Emma Ward who was still alive but living apart from her second husband, Simeon Clegg, presumably having reverted to her previous married name. He said he was married but Emma said she was a widow. I think it unlikely there was a divorce, since divorce was virtually impossible for ordinary people , being far too expensive, in those times.

Finally, the GRO death indexes (consulted at FreeBMD) have the death of an Emma Clegg at Hull in the final quarter of 1915, aged 85. I suggest this was her and the given age of 85 accords with a birth circa 1830/31.

An interesting lady, Emma! What were her motives for marrying firstly to a man some 40 years older than her and then to a much younger man the second time around?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My researches tell me that in every census apart from 1841 and 1851 Emma Matchan (or Matcham) knocked around 10 years off her age. In 1841 she is shown as 10 and in 1851 as 19, yet in the 1861 census (where she was a visitor at Sculcoates, Hull, with a couple called Lunt) her age is given as 20! Then in 1871 she is living with her father and says her age was 32 but she was more likely 39 or 40. </p>
<p>From their given ages in the 1881 census &#8211; Benjamin B Ward was 89 and she was supposedly 43 &#8211; she was 46 years younger than her husband. However, if she was born in 1831, then she would actually have been nearer 50 and about 44 or 45 when the son was born. Would it be pushing my luck to harbour an idle thought about whether Benjamin was the father? (!) When she married Simeon Clegg in 1884 she would have been some 13 or 14 years older than him, since he was born in 1844.</p>
<p>I agree with you, Wayne, that in the 1901 census she was the Emma Ward who was still alive but living apart from her second husband, Simeon Clegg, presumably having reverted to her previous married name. He said he was married but Emma said she was a widow. I think it unlikely there was a divorce, since divorce was virtually impossible for ordinary people , being far too expensive, in those times.</p>
<p>Finally, the GRO death indexes (consulted at FreeBMD) have the death of an Emma Clegg at Hull in the final quarter of 1915, aged 85. I suggest this was her and the given age of 85 accords with a birth circa 1830/31.</p>
<p>An interesting lady, Emma! What were her motives for marrying firstly to a man some 40 years older than her and then to a much younger man the second time around?</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Roberts</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-513</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 11:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-513</guid>
		<description>I have been looking into the genealogy of Nick Clegg to see if he may connect back to my mother&#039;s ancestor, the Rev Dr James Clegg (1679-1755) of Lancashire and Derbyshire. No such luck yet but I did find his family tree quite interesting and being the amateur genealogist I am, I have found a few things out.

Simeon Clegg married Mary Brook in 1868. She was the daughter of Jonathan Brook and his wife Ann Ellis (married 1838). They are found on the 1841 census living at Leeds, Yorkshire with 2 yo Harriet. Jonathan Brook being a cloth draper by occupation. By 1851 census Jonathan was a coal leader and the family were living at Wortley near Leeds. Along with Harriet there were now Mercy, Mary, Thomas, John and Ann. Jonathan was a farmer of 66 acres and employing 6 men and 2 boys at 13 Mill Green, Holbeck by the 1861 census. Ann was a farmer&#039;s wife and the family had expanded to include Ellis, William, Sarah and Jane while Harriet appears to have married and left the household. On the 1871 census Jonathan Brook has 13 acres and employing 2 boys. His wife Ann is not there, perhaps passing away in the preceeding years. What links this family to Nick Clegg is that his ancestor John Clegg aged 2 years was staying with his grandfather Jonathan Brook and uncles and aunts on the night of the census and not with parents Simeon and Mary Clegg.

Mary Brook died at Hull, Yorkshire in 1884.  Simeon then married Mrs Emma Ward later in 1884 at Hull, Yorkshire. She had been Emma Matchan and was the widow of Benjamin Batty Ward and they had a young son, Robert Ward born about 1876. He appears on the 1891 census with Simeon and Emma Clegg.

 Simeon died in 1903 in Hull, Yorkshire. His second wife Emma possibly died before him, as he was living with another man, an artist/sculptor in 1901.  However she seems to have been living elsewhere in Hull as Emma Ward born about 1839 at Brandesburton, Yorkshire according to 1901 census. Why did they separate or divorce? Was Simeon having a bisexual relationship with the single Charles Mead? Emma was born at Brandesburton, but she may have been born as early as 1831. She married Benjamin Batty Ward, some 40 years her senior, in 1873. Their son Robert was named after her father.

It is all quite fasinating.
Wayne (Brisbane, Australia)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been looking into the genealogy of Nick Clegg to see if he may connect back to my mother&#8217;s ancestor, the Rev Dr James Clegg (1679-1755) of Lancashire and Derbyshire. No such luck yet but I did find his family tree quite interesting and being the amateur genealogist I am, I have found a few things out.</p>
<p>Simeon Clegg married Mary Brook in 1868. She was the daughter of Jonathan Brook and his wife Ann Ellis (married 1838). They are found on the 1841 census living at Leeds, Yorkshire with 2 yo Harriet. Jonathan Brook being a cloth draper by occupation. By 1851 census Jonathan was a coal leader and the family were living at Wortley near Leeds. Along with Harriet there were now Mercy, Mary, Thomas, John and Ann. Jonathan was a farmer of 66 acres and employing 6 men and 2 boys at 13 Mill Green, Holbeck by the 1861 census. Ann was a farmer&#8217;s wife and the family had expanded to include Ellis, William, Sarah and Jane while Harriet appears to have married and left the household. On the 1871 census Jonathan Brook has 13 acres and employing 2 boys. His wife Ann is not there, perhaps passing away in the preceeding years. What links this family to Nick Clegg is that his ancestor John Clegg aged 2 years was staying with his grandfather Jonathan Brook and uncles and aunts on the night of the census and not with parents Simeon and Mary Clegg.</p>
<p>Mary Brook died at Hull, Yorkshire in 1884.  Simeon then married Mrs Emma Ward later in 1884 at Hull, Yorkshire. She had been Emma Matchan and was the widow of Benjamin Batty Ward and they had a young son, Robert Ward born about 1876. He appears on the 1891 census with Simeon and Emma Clegg.</p>
<p> Simeon died in 1903 in Hull, Yorkshire. His second wife Emma possibly died before him, as he was living with another man, an artist/sculptor in 1901.  However she seems to have been living elsewhere in Hull as Emma Ward born about 1839 at Brandesburton, Yorkshire according to 1901 census. Why did they separate or divorce? Was Simeon having a bisexual relationship with the single Charles Mead? Emma was born at Brandesburton, but she may have been born as early as 1831. She married Benjamin Batty Ward, some 40 years her senior, in 1873. Their son Robert was named after her father.</p>
<p>It is all quite fasinating.<br />
Wayne (Brisbane, Australia)</p>
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		<title>By: Edward J. Davies</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-510</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward J. Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 09:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-510</guid>
		<description>No problem, Roy. Thanks for your kind comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem, Roy. Thanks for your kind comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Stockdill</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Stockdill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 21:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-507</guid>
		<description>Thank you for pointing that out and I apologise to David Webster if I unfairly criticised him. As a former national newspaper journalist, I have myself occasionally suffered from poor editing.

I must say, Edward, that I found your article in the Genealogists&#039; Magazine well researched and admirably sourced. I can assure you that I had not read it when I carried out my own research (an unfortunate confession since I am a Trustee of the SoG and clearly should have done!).

 However, I am glad that we seem to agree on the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for pointing that out and I apologise to David Webster if I unfairly criticised him. As a former national newspaper journalist, I have myself occasionally suffered from poor editing.</p>
<p>I must say, Edward, that I found your article in the Genealogists&#8217; Magazine well researched and admirably sourced. I can assure you that I had not read it when I carried out my own research (an unfortunate confession since I am a Trustee of the SoG and clearly should have done!).</p>
<p> However, I am glad that we seem to agree on the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward J. Davies</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-504</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward J. Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 18:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-504</guid>
		<description>To be fair to David Webster, he got in touch with me a few months ago and the suggestion in his article that Francis Troup Manson was the &quot;adopted son&quot; of Alexander and Jessie seems to have been down to editorial error and was not David&#039;s belief. He was happy to accept the other corrections.

You might be right that James Cruickshank and Francis Troup were friends. James Cruickshank was indeed a farmer, although above the average in social standing. He was apparently also a justice of the peace for Banffshire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair to David Webster, he got in touch with me a few months ago and the suggestion in his article that Francis Troup Manson was the &#8220;adopted son&#8221; of Alexander and Jessie seems to have been down to editorial error and was not David&#8217;s belief. He was happy to accept the other corrections.</p>
<p>You might be right that James Cruickshank and Francis Troup were friends. James Cruickshank was indeed a farmer, although above the average in social standing. He was apparently also a justice of the peace for Banffshire.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Stockdill</title>
		<link>http://blog.myheritage.com/2010/04/the-prime-ministerial-candidates-a-genealogical-backdrop-2/#comment-490</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Stockdill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 20:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.myheritage.com/?p=409#comment-490</guid>
		<description>Does it really matter that much who got there first? The interesting thing is that we all, quite independently, arrived at the same conclusion.

I have now read Edward&#039;s article in the Genealogists&#039; Magazine, of which I find I still have a copy. I do not know who David Webster is but he clearly made significant errors in his article in Family History Monthly, Feb 2008. I agree completely that there is no evidence whatsoever that Alexander James Manson and Jessie Cruickshank ever entered into any form of marriage. I too found the marriages of both parties to quite different people in 1855. I agree also about Jessie&#039;s parentage - she was clearly the daughter of James Cruickshank and Elizabeth Sharp and was born circa 1829. Her entry in the 1851 census makes this clear. As I have pointed out, Alexander James Manson was almost 20 years older than her when Jessie&#039;s son was born.

My assumption (and, yes, I know they can be dangerous things!) is that James Cruickshank and Francis Troup (Francis Troup Manson&#039;s adoptive father) were friends and near neighbours, both being farmers, and that Francis adopted Jessie&#039;s illegitimate son, which would seem to explain the middle name of Troup in Francis jr&#039;s name.

BTW, one thing which no-one seems to have mentioned is that when Gordon Brown&#039;s maternal grandfather, John Henderson Souter, died in 1929, aged only 48, the cause of death was given as &quot;chronic alcoholism&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it really matter that much who got there first? The interesting thing is that we all, quite independently, arrived at the same conclusion.</p>
<p>I have now read Edward&#8217;s article in the Genealogists&#8217; Magazine, of which I find I still have a copy. I do not know who David Webster is but he clearly made significant errors in his article in Family History Monthly, Feb 2008. I agree completely that there is no evidence whatsoever that Alexander James Manson and Jessie Cruickshank ever entered into any form of marriage. I too found the marriages of both parties to quite different people in 1855. I agree also about Jessie&#8217;s parentage &#8211; she was clearly the daughter of James Cruickshank and Elizabeth Sharp and was born circa 1829. Her entry in the 1851 census makes this clear. As I have pointed out, Alexander James Manson was almost 20 years older than her when Jessie&#8217;s son was born.</p>
<p>My assumption (and, yes, I know they can be dangerous things!) is that James Cruickshank and Francis Troup (Francis Troup Manson&#8217;s adoptive father) were friends and near neighbours, both being farmers, and that Francis adopted Jessie&#8217;s illegitimate son, which would seem to explain the middle name of Troup in Francis jr&#8217;s name.</p>
<p>BTW, one thing which no-one seems to have mentioned is that when Gordon Brown&#8217;s maternal grandfather, John Henderson Souter, died in 1929, aged only 48, the cause of death was given as &#8220;chronic alcoholism&#8221;.</p>
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